Curse

Washi · Aug 10, 2008, 07:05 PM // 19:05

I decided to make a new thread cause there isn't one for full discord team, but if some mod feels it's redundant, please merge it with any other discord thread.

I made a build for 2 people and 6 heroes that works like a charm. I had a paragon and warrior human chars in mind so if you are running a caster you may find it not so perfect (especially if you can spam hexes).

The purpose of this thread is to make this build better so please comment and give your ideas on how to improve it.

So here we go:

[build prof=N/Rt pve name="Resto 1" box death=10+1+1 soul=9+1 resto=11 curses=4][Discord][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Protective Was Kaolai][Signet of Lost Souls][Life][parasitic bond][death pact signet][/build]
[build prof=N/Rt pve name="Resto 2" box death=10+1+1 soul=9+1 resto=11 curses=4][Discord][Mend Body and Soul][Spirit Light][Protective Was Kaolai][Signet of Lost Souls][Recovery][enfeebling blood][death pact signet][/build]
[build prof=N/Rt pve name="MM" box death=12+1+3 soul=12+1][Discord][Animate Bone Minions][Blood of the Master][Putrid Bile][Signet of Lost Souls][foul feast][infuse condition][rotting flesh][/build]
[build prof=N/Mo pve name="Heal" box death=10+1+1 soul=9+1 heal=11 curses=4][Discord][Patient Spirit][Dwaynas Kiss][Dwaynas sorrow][Signet of Lost Souls][spotless mind][cure hex][restore life][/build]
[build prof=N/Mo pve name="Prot" box death=10+1+1 soul=9+1 prot=11 curses=4][Discord][protective Spirit][aegis][Death Nova][Signet of Lost Souls][rip enchantment][remove hex][vengeance][/build]
[build prof=E/Me pve name="Water" box energy=12+1+3 water=12+1 dom=3][ether renewal][water attunement][aura of restoration][frigid armor][deep freeze][ice spikes][blurred vision][cry of frustration][/build]

Two resto healers are kinda obvious so there's not much to talk about.

The mm:
There is no [death nova] here, because I absolutely HATE when my mm stays a whole radar range behind me if I forget to flag him (I'm lazy like that). So if you like to babysit him it's prolly a better idea to keep DN on his bar.
[Infuse condition] isn't really needed but I like it.
[Rotting flesh] is nice but the cast time... ugh, I often keep it disabled so he doesnt waste time casting it in some critical moment.

Healer:
Now this one is here for two reasons:
[dwayna's sorrow] is nice and I don't want it on my mm (see DN for my reasoning).
Hex removals. Some hexes hurt, and since I'm a paragon I really dont like to be unable to gain adrenaline or unable to use shouts.
When you are not expecting any scary hexes you could put DS on your mm and take another N/Rt instead.

Prot:
This one carries [death nova], some cool prots (duh), hex and enchant removal. I like him

Water Ele:
Now this guy pwns. [ether renewal] is crazy and he spams it (almost always). 4 enchants are a little overkill but since he has only 515 HP, [frigid armor] helps him stay alive.
[deep freeze] is the best hex you could ever dream of for this team. It has big AOE (in the area) and its a snare. I luv it.
Other two hexes are also very nice and COF is always handy.
You need water Adept Staff of Enchanting with Aptitude not Attitude inscription cause you have 3 water skills that have 2 sec cast time.

Tell me what you think.

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 10, 2008, 07:52 PM // 19:52

I'd replace the Ele with an N/E. Half it's bar is just enchantments. Deep Freeze works fine at 0 spec so it can be another Discord nec running it. Grasping Earth is also a good hex that can be used defensivley.

I'd probably use Convert Hexes over Spotless Mind.

MercenaryKnight · Aug 10, 2008, 07:56 PM // 19:56

I think it's nice, the only detail that kind of lost me was the water ele. Besides deep freeze all the other hexes aren't aoe (well not big enough anyways). So parasitic bond will be what your getting them to target for discord stuff.

I almost wonder if you could do ether renewal protect and then you could make the protection necromancer be a bit better.

I do like the idea of an off mm death nova though, so that way there will be no more worries about starting a fight and ending it while your mm is sitting back there putting death nova on everything.

I have grown kind of accustom to bringing 2 heroes with animate bone minions. Because discord usually kills so quickly that you can get more minions up and I don't bring blood of the master since having 15+ minions is huge sacrifices.

Fragile Feeling · Aug 10, 2008, 08:13 PM // 20:13

You're title confuses me because I only see 5 discord heroes...

But anyways I do agree with you on death nova because I will often find my mm waaaaay back there spamming it but I just love the damage it brings so much that I don't want to take it off my bar.

Washi · Aug 10, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

I'd replace the Ele with an N/E. Half it's bar is just enchantments. Deep Freeze works fine at 0 spec so it can be another Discord nec running it. Grasping Earth is also a good hex that can be used defensivley.

You got a point there lol. I thought 6 discords is a little overkill so I came up with this guy and I like it cause he nevers run out of energy and he heals himself.

But prolly he's not the best thing in the universe

And I think he would run up to the mobs to cast Grasping Earth so it's a no no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fragile Feeling

You're title confuses me because I only see 5 discord heroes...

OK I did a mind shortcut there lol. It's a 6 hero team build around discord :d

Cathode_Reborn · Aug 10, 2008, 08:45 PM // 20:45

They keep their distance with it and only use it when someone comes close.

Lyynyyrd · Aug 10, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

What is your personal build as a Paragon? Empathic Removal got a facelift and is an even nicer choice for Paragons now.. condition+hex removal as well as a 50 point heal @ 0 spec.

Turbobusa · Aug 10, 2008, 08:55 PM // 20:55

I really don't get why you have SolS since things drop really fast and you have a MB.
That's 5 slots wasted imo, heroes do fine without

Washi · Aug 10, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lyynyyrd

What is your personal build as a Paragon? Empathic Removal got a facelift and is an even nicer choice for Paragons now.. condition+hex removal as well as a 50 point heal @ 0 spec.

[holy spear][spear swipe][save yourselves][asuran scan][focused anger][for great justice][there's nothing to fear][aggressive refrain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

I really don't get why you have SolS since things drop really fast and you have a MB.
That's 5 slots wasted imo, heroes do fine without

Because this team is supposed to work in the hardest areas possible, such as DOA or Slavers and sometimes things go bad, minions die and you start loosing energy. SOLS is to good to drop it.

-Lotus- · Aug 10, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

lose the MM concept. you have almost the entire team running a high spec in death magic, so just throw bone minions on a 2 or 3 of the necros. that gives you the potential to have well over 10 minions, and dosnt make one character totally useless when there are no corpses.

and get rid of that ele. a N//E can do the same job and spam discord.

Splinter weapon...

Washi · Aug 10, 2008, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Lotus-

lose the MM concept. you have almost the entire team running a high spec in death magic, so just throw bone minions on a 2 or 3 of the necros. that gives you the potential to have well over 10 minions, and dosnt make one character totally useless when there are no corpses.

doh... so his discord, putrid bile, foul feast, rotting flesh are useless when there are no corpses? Basicly you are saying drop blood of the master and suddenly he becomes more useful? right...

DarkSpirit · Aug 10, 2008, 10:11 PM // 22:11

1 MM is enough. If you want to use Vengeance, I would only let the MM carry it because it would be annoying if the MM took the time to create a 10 minion army when resurrected by Vengeance, only to die from vengeance timeout and lose them all within the next 30s mark.

I would replace the ele with a N/E with points to Earth and use Wards. [[Ward against Melee] is too awesome to miss out of and since yours is a 6-hero build, you cant bring Herta for the wards. If you want a snare, you can use [[grasping earth] as suggested by Cathode or [[Ward against foes].

This also allows you to easily put in anti-knockdown like [[Ward of Stability] in areas that need it.

MercenaryKnight · Aug 10, 2008, 11:39 PM // 23:39

For the mm I was almost considering /me for hexeater signet. Since most heroes clump up and theirs only a few single hex removers. But I guess vengeance would be best if put on the mm for the reason above by dark spirit.

Atleast with the earth n/e you can also bring stuff like churning earth as well if your in hm.

Just noticed that ward against melee seems to have been nerfed a while back with 30 second recharge. Wonder why they haven't buffed it back to a regular 20 second recharge or something now that theirs the pve/pvp split.

-Lotus- · Aug 11, 2008, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Washi

doh... so his discord, putrid bile, foul feast, rotting flesh are useless when there are no corpses? Basicly you are saying drop blood of the master and suddenly he becomes more useful? right...

why do you need a MM at all? right now, there is one character mostly devoted to minions. sure he can spam discord, but so does everyone else. rotting flesh sucks. and foul feast can still be spammed, but its not that great having one char with all of your team's conditions when infuse condition dosnt do anything.

wouldn't it be better to spare 1 skill slot on (example here) 3 characters for a summon skill? that way instead of having an army of 10 minions you could get 24 (12 spec). at the same time when your party goes into an area with little/no corpses the effectiveness of one character is not drastically affected.

In a normal party the entire team dosnt have 12 points in death magic already, so it makes sense to have a dedicated MM, but when you have almost the entire party capable of raising and maintaining high-level minions it makes more sense to spread the job around.

MercenaryKnight · Aug 11, 2008, 02:06 AM // 02:06

For a build, you don't want three or more necromancers wasting time casting bone minions. Having 10 or 100 low lvl bone minions won't matter most of the time seeing as most hard areas have aoe damage. They are just there to take the initial aggro and do some extra damage with death nova.

Not really much reason to have so many minions unless you wanted fiends with mark of pain. But even then 25 energy for all the heroes is really annoying.

-Lotus- · Aug 11, 2008, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

For a build, you don't want three or more necromancers wasting time casting bone minions. Having 10 or 100 low lvl bone minions won't matter most of the time seeing as most hard areas have aoe damage. They are just there to take the initial aggro and do some extra damage with death nova.

Not really much reason to have so many minions unless you wanted fiends with mark of pain. But even then 25 energy for all the heroes is really annoying.

minions dont do enough damage to be worth the energy. they do, however make an increadible wall so that if you were to run a group with 6+ casters (hint, hint look at the OP), enemy melee will never touch your backline. and when you are making a wall of minions, the more the merrier.

MercenaryKnight · Aug 11, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

I understand, but a wall of 200 minions won't make a bit of difference if your enemies will destroy them as quickly as a wall of 10 minions. Not to mention they are their for distraction while you quickly spike down most of the enemies before they finish off your minions.

A minion wall isn't your only defense, you still have optional utilities such as wards, aegis, healers, you could bring shadow of fear and already have enfeebling blood.

It's not that uncommon for me to spike down half the group by the time the minions are dead.

-Lotus- · Aug 11, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

I understand, but a wall of 200 minions won't make a bit of difference if your enemies will destroy them as quickly as a wall of 10 minions. Not to mention they are their for distraction while you quickly spike down most of the enemies before they finish off your minions.

A minion wall isn't your only defense, you still have optional utilities such as wards, aegis, healers, you could bring shadow of fear and already have enfeebling blood.

It's not that uncommon for me to spike down half the group by the time the minions are dead.

was there a point in here that I missed? you have multiple layers of defense.... yes... and strengthening them is bad because...?

MercenaryKnight · Aug 11, 2008, 03:20 AM // 03:20

Having heroes fighting over corpses instead of killing your enemies is not a good thing would be the main point.

There is enough meatshields with 10 minions as there would be with 20+. It is just that having 3 characters summoning minions and fighting over corpses is worse than having 1 summon new minions while the other 2 continue fighting.

-Lotus- · Aug 11, 2008, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight

Having heroes fighting over corpses instead of killing your enemies is not a good thing would be the main point.

hopeless... haha